ABC Radio, RN Drive

JONATHAN GREEN: The Prime Minister also confirmed that Parliament will sit at the end of August, so soon. Steve Ciobo is Trade and Investment Minister. He's just picked up Tourism as well. Minister, welcome.

STEVEN CIOBO: Thank you, Jonathan.

JONATHAN GREEN: It's a slightly bigger reshuffle than we might have expected.

STEVEN CIOBO: I think it's a reshuffle that reflects the priorities the Government's got for this term. It's a reshuffle, of course, that has consistency in terms of those MPs and senators who were reelected. The cabinet's largely as it was and, of course, we continue now to focus on implementing the agenda the Government was elected to implement.

JONATHAN GREEN: Is one of those priorities a diminishment of the role of small business in the cabinet? It's out of cabinet. Surely that's bad news for jobs and growth?

STEVEN CIOBO: Look, at the end of the day you always have cabinet ministers who have ultimate responsibility in the strategic sense in relation to each of these. Not every minister can be a cabinet minister. There are, of course, different levels of responsibility, and so I don't think it's fair, frankly, to characterise it as that at all. The simple fact is there's a dedicated Small Business Minister. That's tremendous. It's someone who can make it a key focus, and I think that that's ultimately going to be good for, of course, Australia's engine room, the small business sector.

JONATHAN GREEN: Well, if it is the country's engine room why is it not in the cabinet?

STEVEN CIOBO: Well, as I said, not every single ministry can be in the cabinet.

JONATHAN GREEN: Good win for the Nationals. Matt Canavan whisked straight into cabinet with Resources and Northern Australia. A greater focus there on regional issues?

STEVEN CIOBO: Matt is certainly somebody who's made a big impression. He's someone who's, I believe, a very good cabinet minster from Queensland. Someone who's got a lot to contribute. I've worked alongside Matt for some time now. He's got a good understanding of the issues across Northern Australia. A good understanding of the challenges that the Government's got to face in terms of driving the economic diversification of Australia, as well as the tremendous opportunity that extends throughout that area north of the Tropic of Capricorn.

JONATHAN GREEN: Quick win for the Nationals, but not so much for women in this reshuffle. The Coalition has a problem with female representation, doesn't it?

STEVEN CIOBO: Well, of course, we would always like more. Unlike the Labor Party we don't have a quota system. The Coalition does operate on a basis of women standing for pre-selection and ultimately election. As we've lost some seats we have of course, unfortunately, lost representation of some women from the government benches.

JONATHAN GREEN: You're happy to accept a quota for Nationals in the ministry, but not for women.

STEVEN CIOBO: That's not a quota at all. It's actually ...

JONATHAN GREEN: An iron law of arithmetic.

STEVEN CIOBO: A formula. Well, it's a formula, in terms of the proportionality between the Liberal Party and the National Party. That's completely and utterly different to a quota. It certainly is not a quota, but what we do have is the appropriate balance between the Liberal Party and the National Party, reflecting the fact that we're a Coalition. And of course, Prime Minster Turnbull put a very strong focus and emphasis upon having more women in, not only the cabinet, but in the ministry. I think he's succeeded that quite well. They have a strong voice as part of the government.

JONATHAN GREEN: Christopher Pyne, a demotion surely? Defence Industry – Andrew Bolt put it this afternoon in his blog, "He now has three years being a Minister in charge of his own re-election".

STEVEN CIOBO: Well, you know Jonathan, I think, frankly, people get a bit excited about, "Well, he's shifted from this portfolio to that portfolio. Is it a demotion? Is it a promotion?" Let's be realistic. Christopher Pyne, now as a South Australian, has responsibility for Defence Industry. It's implementation of the Defence Industry White Paper that the Government took forward. It's consistent with the very strong focus the Government's put upon the South Australian defence industry. I think it's, of course, a very good and natural fit. I think Christopher is someone who brings a huge amount of experience and energy to the role, and I have no doubt will do an outstanding job as Defence Industry Minister.

JONATHAN GREEN: A big focus on Adelaide, on South Australian seats. There's a lot of defence money, $50 billion in submarines for example, and a fair bit of other navy pork for Adelaide. Will there be some jealousies from other parts of the country? I mean, Tasmania, for example, not even represented in the ministry.

STEVEN CIOBO: Well, I think it's a reflection of a couple of things. It's a reflection of different industries having key areas of strength, the development of industries, of supporting industries, ancillary industries. Of course, not every industry is reflected in every single seat around the country. I mean, take for example my own seat. On the Gold Coast, of course, a very strong focus on tourism industry. Tourism is, of course, represented across the balance of the country as well, but it's the key industry in my own particular seat. Likewise with defence. There's a very strong defence industry based in South Australia. There will continue to be in the future a very strong defence industry based in South Australia, so it makes sense, frankly, for a South Australian to have that role.

JONATHAN GREEN: You should both be secure.

STEVEN CIOBO: I think the Australian people pay on performance. I'm a very big believer with all politicians, Jonathan, they get paid on performance.

JONATHAN GREEN: Steve Ciobo. Trade and Investment Minister. You've just picked up Tourism in today's reshuffle from the Prime Minister. Joining us now on RN Drive, 12 minutes after 6. Steve, one of the big talking points before this reshuffle was the balance around the factional interests in the party. To quote Andrew Bolt again, who he was commenting on this reshuffle, his headline today, "Turnbull tells conservatives to get stuffed as he looks after his cronies". Is the PM trying to split the conservatives in the party, favouring young Turks like Zed Seselja, Michael Sukkar, over Abbott loyalists?

STEVEN CIOBO: I mean, look, I'm loathed to move into these sorts of issues, because frankly I just don't think the Australian people care particularly for the sausage making of politics. I genuinely don't.

JONATHAN GREEN: Well, let's imagine for a moment that they do.

STEVEN CIOBO: What I would highlight is that both Michael Sukkar and Zed Seselja are from the conservative right. That's the same group as Tony Abbott.

JONATHAN GREEN: That's my point. They're not Kevin Andrews, for example.

STEVEN CIOBO: Well but I mean look, I'm just not going to get into this, because, one, I think it's completely and utterly irrelevant to the Australian people. I would much rather, frankly, Jonathan, speak with you about what we have planned for the future. About, as a Government, what we're focused on in terms of jobs. What we're focused on in terms of driving economic growth. How we're going to tackle Australia's long term debt problem that the Coalition's been particularly focused on. What we're going to do in the face of the Brexit vote and the face of trade protectionism, the new Senate. I frankly think that's what Australians are far more focused and concerned about, rather than this kind of rubbish about who's from what faction, or who might be from where, or who voted for whom in the leadership contest. I just don't think that's relevant to everyday Australians, to the life that they lead, to how they're going to pay the bills next month. I think they would rather hear from government ministers talking about those issues than talking about this internal mechanics, which might be fascinating for the press gallery, but I just don't think has a lot of relevance, or is salient, for the Australian people.

JONATHAN GREEN: Josh Frydenberg picks up Environment and Energy. I mean, that's a logical combination. Is that good news for the renewable sector?

STEVEN CIOBO: I think it is a logical pairing of the twin roles. Energy policy is, of course, these days inextricably linked to the environment. We have such a strong focus, not only through the renewable energy target, but more broadly on what can happen in terms of an energy future. I do think Josh is someone who has extraordinary capability. We work closely together. He's someone who, I think, will really relish this role, and being able to blend energy policy with, of course, the appropriate focus on the environment, and the concerns and considerations that Australians have in that respect, I think is a big positive.

JONATHAN GREEN: Some late news, Steve Ciobo, ALP has won Herbert from Ewen Jones by eight votes at the end of AEC counting.

STEVEN CIOBO: Look I saw that, and the headline's that they're eight votes. When I checked on the AEC website only a matter of minutes ago, there were still some 500 and something votes left to count, according to the AEC website. Look, I don't know ultimately what the numbers are.

JONATHAN GREEN: There will be a recount, we assume.

STEVEN CIOBO: Look, it's very close. I mean, Herbert is exceptionally close. We will just have to wait and see, and when you're talking about less than ten votes difference between two candidates, then recounts really do start to come into the mix.

JONATHAN GREEN: First joint party meeting today, of course, for the government parties. Did superannuation raise its ugly head?

STEVEN CIOBO: Well, Jonathan, I don't get into the issues that were discussed in party room. Party room discussions are confidential. What I will say about superannuation is that the Government took a policy to the election. We, of course, announced ahead of the election the proposed changes we had to superannuation. I would stress that the changes that we have spoken about making wouldn't be necessary but for the fact that we have to deal with the legacy of debt that the Australian Labor Party left behind.

JONATHAN GREEN: Not because there's an unfairness in the superannuation system?

STEVEN CIOBO: Well, one of the ways that we're tackling that is through, of course, dealing with those egalitarian aspects, the equity aspects, but I'd also stress, Jonathan, that if we didn't have to deal with that debt legacy problem you would try not to fiddle with superannuation policy. The problem is, and you recall of course the many changes that the Labor Party made, one of the pieces of feedback that I do hear from people is about what governments of both persuasions making changes to superannuation policy.

JONATHAN GREEN: One member, we understand, that raised some objections to the current course of policy. Was that Eric Abetz?

STEVEN CIOBO: Well, as I said, I'm just not going to get into the detail of party room deliberations.

JONATHAN GREEN: Can you reveal what Tony Nutt and Mark Textor said about the campaign?

STEVEN CIOBO: No. I mean, I think they're already on the public record in terms of their comments about the campaign. You know, Jonathan, look, the Coalition won the campaign. We have been re-elected as the Government for Australia. We have a strong plan about what we intend to do to focus on driving economic growth across the country, about making sure we deal with the costs of living that Australians have to face with, about making sure we provide the best opportunities for Australians to secure employment in the future. Those are the things that occupy our minds. There will be a review of the election. Of course, there are those who, with the benefit of hindsight, said, "Well, I would have done this differently," or "I would have done that differently." That's something that political parties on both sides of the political aisle look at. I've no doubt the Australian Labor Party, for all their own congratulations, recognise that they lost the election and so I'm sure that they would like to make changes too to make sure that next time they try to win. We'll, of course, undertake the same exercise, but again this is something that the political parties themselves do, not something that elected members of parliament focus their time and attention on.

JONATHAN GREEN: Kevin Rudd for the UN. Good idea?

STEVEN CIOBO: I heard your excerpt from Kristina Keneally, and boy oh boy ...

JONATHAN GREEN: Are you a fellow traveller with Miss Keneally on that, are you?

STEVEN CIOBO: Well, with friends like Kristina Keneally, poor Kevin Rudd. Look, this is something that we are going to consider. Clearly, Kevin Rudd has requested the Australian Government nominate him for the role. Cabinet has said that we'll look at it. I'm not going to pre-empt that cabinet conversation. We'll have a discussion about it and reach a consideration in a cool, calm and collected way.

JONATHAN GREEN: Parliament not to reconvene until the end of August. Now, you last sat on the 5th of May. That seems an extraordinary time to have nobody running the country.

STEVEN CIOBO: Well, we've got to work around the rules as they are laid out in relation to the return of writs in terms of calling the election. Clearly, the election period itself was longer than usual. An eight-week campaign as opposed to what is typically a five, and occasionally a six, week campaign –

JONATHAN GREEN: Too long?

STEVEN CIOBO: – the extra period. Look, it was a long campaign. I think most Australians wish political campaigns were probably over and done in a day, frankly. Who could blame them? But, look, what's done is done. We've had the campaign now. The Government's been re-elected. We're now getting back into business. The ministry was announced today. The swearing-in will take place tomorrow. Incoming government briefs have been issued. We're focused on doing what we're doing and, in my particular case Jonathan, I'm someone who will continue on in that Trade and Investment portfolio. Now, with the additional responsibility of Tourism. Really looking forward to carrying on the work that we started in the last Parliament.

JONATHAN GREEN: I'm sure you've all got a lot to do for the next month and a half. Just a final question before we go, Steve Ciobo. I don't know if you saw Sonia Kruger's comments on TV this morning about immigration, and perhaps whether this country should look at stopping Muslim immigration. Do you have a view on that?

STEVEN CIOBO: I'm certainly not someone who believes that we should make decisions about immigration on the basis of someone's religion, or on the basis of the colour of their skin, or on the basis of their race. I don't believe that that is, in a country like Australia, the right way to take decisions with respect to immigrants into our country. We do, as a country, look at people's, for example, skill sets, their occupations. We clearly can't allow every single person that wants to come to Australia to come into Australia, so discriminating on the base of saying, "Well, look, as a nation, what do we need in terms of people's skill sets? What do we need in terms of the kinds of people that can make a contribution to Australia in the future?"

JONATHAN GREEN: So, religion should have nothing to do with it?

STEVEN CIOBO: Well, as I said, I certainly don't believe that you run an immigration policy on the basis of immigration, race, colour of skin, those types of issues. I think history's taught us that, one, I think it's morally wrong, but two, I think history's also taught us that that is a recipe for disaster.

JONATHAN GREEN: Steve Ciobo, thanks for your time.

STEVEN CIOBO: Thank you. Pleasure.

JONATHAN GREEN: Steve Ciobo, who's Trade and Investment Minister. He's just picked up Tourism as an addition to his suite of portfolios in the reshuffle announced by Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull this afternoon.