Bloomberg Business, Markets Asia
HAIDI LUN: Well, you're talking about that with the Trade and Investment Minister for Australia, Steven Ciobo, who joins us, now. Minister, before we get onto talking about Brexit and this ongoing talks to set up an FTA with the UK, I want to get your reaction to one of our top stories, which is the detainment of these 18 people, three Australians who work for Crown, in China. I mean, we've seen this story before, happen with Rio Tinto in Stern Hu. How concerned are you, and at what point, do you think the Government will need to get involved?
STEVEN CIOBO: Well, of course we're concerned about the outcomes, as they currently stand. We're taking interest, in terms of developments, and we've been formally notified by the Chinese government that there are three Australians that've been detained, and they're currently being held in China. We're yet to be informed about what the charges are, or what the potential implications are, but we're providing, wherever possible, consular assistance to those Australians, and of course, we'll continue to monitor developments.
RISH SALAMAT: Minister, don't you get a bit concerned about how this could affect, also, what's going on, if you put your other hat on, your tourism hat, here, that it could actually mean that they could jeopardise some of the numbers of Chinese coming to Australia, as well?
STEVEN CIOBO: Look, I'm not. At this point in time, what we want to do is continue to make sure that we're growing Australia's tourism sector. Obviously, we will watch, and take a particular interest in what's happened, in terms of these Crown employees. We need to know what the charges are. We need to know what the allegations are, and whether or not there's evidence that's surrounding the events that've taken place, which have led to their detention. Ultimately though, that is a separate matter, to inbound Chinese numbers into Australia, and even in terms of comments made about Australia's gaming industry, and some of our integrated resorts. Well again, until we actually know the details, and until we know whether or not this is a particular incident, involving specific concerns, or whether it's part of a broader change in policy, all this is yet to be determined.
HAIDI LUN: Minister, we know, so far, that they're being detained for suspected involvement in gambling crimes. There is market chatter that the involvement of Melco Crown, the troubles there, is related to a $15 million Aussie Dollar payment by a Chinese gambler earlier this year. I mean, how proactively is the Government working to try and get more details and resolve this?
STEVEN CIOBO: We're certainly being as proactive as we possibly can. At this stage, as I mentioned, we've been formally notified that three Australians have been detained. They're being offered consular assistance wherever we possibly can. We, of course, will be having some additional conversations with the Chinese government, but the fundamental aspect is this, that obviously they were in mainland China. Mainland Chinese laws apply. There is limited scope for Australia to intervene in relation to these matters. It's still relatively early days, but of course, we understand the concern that family members have. We understand the concern that Crown has about their employees. We want to work proactively to get a clearer picture about what's happened here and get a better understanding about what Chinese authorities are focused on in respect of these people being detained.
RISH SALAMAT: Let's move, Minister, now to Brexit and the chatter as well is the word that Haidi would use here, that we're looking more towards a harder Brexit than previously had been anticipated. How does that really affect you as Australians? Is it an opportunity? Is it a challenge? It's both, of course.
STEVEN CIOBO: Well, that's right. It is both, and I'd characterise it as such. The fact is that we of course look around the world. We see global economic headwinds. We see volatility and uncertainty. Ideally, we'd like these volatilities to diminish over time. In terms of the Australia-UK relationship though, of course we've got strong historical ties. There continues to be a very strong connection between the UK economy and the Australian economy. It's a key source of investment into the Australian market as well as a key destination for Australian investment abroad. I had very warm and cordial discussions with Secretary Liam Fox when I was last in the UK. We're committed to advancing preliminary discussions between the UK and Australia in relation to a free-trade agreement once the UK exits the EU, so we've got some time to run on that. There's of course many things that need to fall into place prior to those things happening.
HAIDI LUN: What does a hard Brexit scenario, though – what kind of a signal, I guess, does it give to global markets and the environment when it comes to global trade?
STEVEN CIOBO: My concern globally at this point in time is that we're seeing a slowdown in trade numbers. We've consistently seen from the IMF, from the WTO and others that trade isn't growing as rapidly as it has historically, these are the global growth rates. Australia is absolutely committed towards continuing to grow trade and grow trade opportunities. We want trade facilitation. We want investment. We see preferential market access into a number of key markets as being crucial to the continued growth of the Australian economy. We've enjoyed 25 years of continuous economic growth because of our commitment to liberalising trade as well as to economic reform within Australia, and we're going to continue that. I unapologetically will pursue on Australia's behalf opportunities to advance our national interests, to strike win-win agreements with countries, as well as with regions such as the EU, as well as in terms of regional trade blocs as well, whether that's the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership or the Trans-Pacific Partnership. We want to make sure that we're pushing as strongly as possible high ambition, commercially meaningful trade agreements.
RISH SALAMAT: Minister, you are of course pursuing trade deals with Australia's interests as it should be at the heart of those discussions. Does it not concern you at the moment that the world is sort of lurching towards protectionism, and are you seeing more evidence of this as well?
STEVEN CIOBO: Look, it is concerning that we are seeing an increase in rhetoric around protectionism. The fact is that protectionism will do nothing except erode future living standards. It will do nothing except erode future prosperity. It'll do nothing except limit job opportunities for future generations. We cannot afford to turn our back on multi decades of economic orthodoxy in pursuit of so-called pragmatic politics. What we must do is remain focused on the many benefits that grow and flow from free-trade. We've got to liberalise wherever possible. We've got to reduce tariffs, reduce non-tariff measures, and make it easier for the world to integrate when it comes to trade and people and investment. The fact is we have never lived in a more global environment than we do today. Digitisation, the global economy, the opportunity for businesses to tap into networks around the world. This is the future. It's what's going to drive prosperity, drive economic growth, and drive job prospects, and the very worst thing we could do is turn our back on the world or indeed for any country to turn their back on the world because that would just consign themselves to a less better future than what they've had in the past.
RISH SALAMAT: You're back with Bloomberg and we're still with Australian Trade Investment Minister Steven Ciobo. Minster, thanks for sticking around with us. Let's talk TPP here, which seems like both Presidential candidates in the US, Donald Trump and of course, Hillary Clinton, are against it, at least Hillary Clinton used to support it, she doesn't anymore, but saying that it could be renegotiated. But there still is this window of opportunity for it to get ratified and done before the end of the Obama presidency. Do you have any hope of that happening?
STEVEN CIOBO: Look, I do. The phrase that I've used is that I'm cautiously optimistic. That's been based on advice that I've received from scholars of US Congressional politics, so to speak. I'm very hopeful that the lame duck session does afford the opportunity for the US Congress to ratify the TPP. I've made it clear from an Australian perspective that there is not scope to renegotiate this agreement. We've fought hard to reach the agreement that we've reached. We can't renegotiate now, the agreement is as the agreement is. So we're calling on the US to ratify. Australia's making solid steps towards ratification. Obviously other members of the 12 countries have either ratified or are taking steps towards ratification. So we're very hopeful that TPP goes through in the lame duck session.
HAIDI LUN: Minister, it's been quite extraordinary watching these developments in Australian politics over the past few months. You've had the rise or the resurgence of a number of anti-immigration politicians. You know Pauline Hanson's getting another run. How worrying is this trend? Particularly when it comes to the impact on key areas like tourism, like education, major Australian exports, really the drivers of this re-balancing that we keep talking about.
STEVEN CIOBO: Well, look, Australia's a vibrant economy and I think people understand that there are different perspectives that are represented in our Parliament. That's natural in a Parliamentary democracy, that of course you have different viewpoints that are represented. Ultimately, what matters though is what government policy is, and the fact is that the Coalition of which obviously I'm a member, is very focused on Australia's engagement with the world; very focused on driving tourism as the key growth sector into the future; very focused on making sure we've got policy settings that help to facilitate trade, that help to drive tourism, that focus on comparative advantages for Australia when it comes to the international landscape. We're also very focused on the continuing reforms that Australia must undertake in terms of fiscal consolidation, as well as on the bigger picture about where we see our lot in the world and how we can continue to engage the world in a way that's going to be of significant benefit for Australia.
RISH SALAMAT: Great. What about commodity prices? How are they at the moment playing into what you're seeing in terms of data, etcetera, etcetera, and do you see a recovery continue?
STEVEN CIOBO: Look, it's early days. Certainly there's a lot of volatility in commodity prices. We've seen some really strong rallies both in terms of met and thermal coal, which is encouraging, and ultimately we'll continue to watch what's happening with the iron ore price. All of these are of course key drivers of state and federal budgets here in Australia. So we'll watch with great interest, and we'll see how long-term these rallies have been and whether or not we can, I hope, pleasantly expect them to help us.
HAIDI LUN: You've just tuned in to see your Minister there, Steven Ciobo joining us there from Canberra.