ABC, NewsRadio
MARIUS BENSON: Steve Ciobo, good morning.
STEVEN CIOBO: Good morning.
MARIUS BENSON: Now what do you expect from this summit? It seems to be everything's in a holding pattern because the elephant in the room is not in the room; Donald Trump.
STEVEN CIOBO: Well APEC's an important vehicle for the world, for the 21 countries that are involved to reassert our commitment to reducing barriers to trade because we know fundamentally that reducing barriers to trade, promoting liberalised trade, drives economic growth and of course provides job opportunities for, in Australia's case, for every day Aussies and it-
MARIUS BENSON: Can I interrupt you there because that's such a familiar refrain and it is one completely rejected by Donald Trump and he is about to be the President of the United States.
STEVEN CIOBO: Well I'm not sure that's correct to characterise it like that. He hasn't said that he's anti-trade. Donald Trump, if you look at comments that he's made repeatedly, has said that he's in favour of trade that's good for America, good for American workers, good for American wages. Now -
MARIUS BENSON: But he specifically said he is anti the TPP. He says his first priority is to get rid of that and after that he'll get rid of NAFTA. If that's not anti-trade it's something very close to it.
STEVEN CIOBO: Look, I'm not here to provide a running commentary on Donald Trump. What I would say in response to the TPP is that we view the TPP as being a good deal for Australia. The other 11 member countries that are involved in the TPP view it as a good deal. Indeed, we took this opportunity at APEC to reassert our commitment to the value and the importance and the economic benefits that will flow from the TPP.
MARIUS BENSON: Yes, but there's such an air of unreality. You say you're not here to provide a running commentary on Donald Trump but you were characterising him yourself; you were commenting that he's not anti-trade. What Donald Trump does on TPP and NAFTA matters. It seems unrealistic for 21 nations to get together with the outgoing President and ignore the incoming President.
STEVEN CIOBO: No look I just think you're being too pessimistic about it. The simple fact of the matter is that we don't know what the US Congress is going to do on the TPP. And there's a big difference-
MARIUS BENSON: Well it's a Republican-dominated Congress, you've got a rough idea?
STEVEN CIOBO: And there is a big difference between the Administration and the Congress. Now, there are a large number of Congressional Republicans who support free trade; who recognise that trade is crucial to driving economic growth. In a growth constrained world, in a world where we see a lot of economic headwinds, this opportunity at APEC, as well as comments that have been made by congressional leaders, is that trade is a positive to helping to drive job growth.
MARIUS BENSON: Yeah, but don't you recognise that there's a change in the world mood reflected in Brexit, in Donald Trump, in some of the European elections as well? And it is one for concentrating on national interest at the expense of international interest. It is one that is critical of wider trade organisations.
STEVEN CIOBO: Well national interest is always at the very core of any trade agreement that's reached. I mean, Australia doesn't enter trade agreements because we think they're a good idea. We enter trade agreements because we know that they're good for Australian exports and good for the Australian economy. And again, I think it's wrong to characterise Brexit as anything other than being pro-trade. Because if you actually look at what it is that the Theresa May Government has said and that Prime Minister May has said repeatedly herself, it's that she wants the UK to be a "beacon of free-trade", they're her exact words. So I think it's really important to actually shift beyond the headlines and look at what it is that people are actually saying -
MARIUS BENSON: When you go beyond the headlines to what people are saying in the Rust Belt states of the United States which put Donald Trump in, and in the areas of Britain which voted Brexit, you don't find people there saying we want more international involvement here. That's not a pro-trade sentiment when you look past the headlines.
STEVEN CIOBO: Well again, you're inviting me to provide a running commentary on what people are-
MARIUS BENSON: You're already doing that - I'm simply testing the argument.
STEVEN CIOBO: No, what I'm trying to do is make it clear that when it comes to trade agreements, Australia's national interest is well served by trade agreements that are, of course, good for Australia. It's not about entering trade agreements 'full stop'. It's about agreements that put Australia first; that recognise that we must open up additional markets for our exporters. We've put a strong and consistent focus on doing that. As a Coalition over the past three or four years, we've secured world's best market access into crucial key North American markets and that's driving a boom of investment and exports from Australia which as a direct consequence meant that Australia had one of the strongest levels of economic growth out of any comparable developed nation on the face of the planet.
MARIUS BENSON: China says if the TPP's going to get knocked over by Donald Trump, come and join our regional organisation. Is Australia interested in joining China's regional organisation which excludes America?
STEVEN CIOBO: Well as I've indicated previously, Australia doesn't have all its eggs in one basket. It's not a case of the TPP is all that there is for Australia. We continue to pursue opportunities for Australian businesses in a variety of different negotiated trade agreements and current agreements that are currently being negotiated. And that includes the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership, or what's called RCEP. RCEP is a trade agreement that's currently under negotiation involving 16 countries, including China and India; more than 50 per cent of the global population; more than 30 per cent of global GDP. And it's a real opportunity for Australia if we strike a good deal.
MARIUS BENSON: That's RCEP, the door to RCEP is open in terms of Australia's outlook?
STEVEN CIOBO: Look absolutely, we're very engaged-
MARIUS BENSON: They're not mutually exclusive…
STEVEN CIOBO: Absolutely not. We're very engaged in the negotiations around RCEP. We're also looking at other opportunities in regards to the Trade in Services Agreement; in regards to the Environmental Goods Agreement. As well as bi-lateral agreements that I'm pursuing on behalf of Australia with Indonesia, in due course with the UK, with the European Union. This is the point: we've got to continue to reduce barriers to trade because that's what drives economic growth and ultimately does drive employment.
MARIUS BENSON: Can you just respond to this ... There was an interesting moment when Peru's President was standing next to Malcolm Turnbull and microphones picked up what was a private comment by him and the Peruvian President asked, "Are we achieving anything here at APEC?" Just saying protectionism is a bad idea. Reasonable question?
STEVEN CIOBO: Well I think it's important that you always assess anything that you're involved with to make sure that it is in fact a positive. APEC, of course, is a good opportunity to state very clearly to the world, and especially at a time when we are seeing the voices of protectionism rise, it's a very good opportunity to restate and to get agreement between the countries involved that being opposed to trade is actually going to result in lower living standards in the future. And that's why we must re-double efforts to one: indicate the advocacy around why liberalised trade is a positive. Two: to acknowledge and respect those that have a different point of view. But three: to make the overwhelmingly compelling case that trade liberalisation produces more job opportunities and stronger economic growth.
MARIUS BENSON: Steve Ciobo, thank you very much.
STEVEN CIOBO: A pleasure, thank you.