Bloomberg, Daybreak Australia
HAIDI LUN: Let's talk about all of this with the Australian Trade Minister, Steven Ciobo, who joins us now from Canberra. Minister Ciobo, great to have you on Daybreak Australia. Let me start. It's an interesting place when it comes to the relationship between Australia and China at the moment. It is a very dependent relationship, but to put things in perspective, Li Keqiang's visit is the first head of state visit that we've had, or Head of Government visit I should say, we've had to Australia for 28 months. This is the longest gap, I believe, in at least a decade. Is this relationship adrift at the moment?
STEVEN CIOBO: Absolutely not. The fact is that Australia's relationship with China is very strong, and in fact if you want proof positive of that there's an op-ed piece in today's Australian newspaper by Premier Li which speaks in very glowing terms about the Australia-China relationship. We've seen continued strong growth in investment. We've seen continued strong growth in terms of two-way trade. Australian export volumes are up significantly, so the relationship, frankly, has never been as strong.
HAIDI LUN: Minister, is this a relationship that at the moment is defined by idealism or by pragmatism, because we had the Foreign Minister Julie Bishop speaking in Singapore saying that China is to further embrace democracy to fulfil its true potential? What will be on the table when you meet with Premier Li when he comes here?
STEVEN CIOBO: Well, it's a relationship that's predominantly built around very strong trade and investment flows. It's a relationship that has been in many respects reinforced in the past couple of years with the signing of the China-Australia Free Trade Agreement. This has underpinned continued growth in terms of our relationship and will for some time to come. In terms of discussions over the next several days with Premier Li's visit, there'll be an opportunity to continue to build on the mutual cooperation between both countries. We've got a strong focus on making sure that we continue to remove non-tariff barriers between our two countries to continue to make it easier for businesses to expand in terms of their investment ties and their trade ties.
BETTY LIU: Minister Ciobo, I'm curious about your views on some of the recent comments just overnight from US Special Trade Representative Lighthizer, Robert Lighthizer, who I'm sure you've heard his comments during his Senate confirmation hearings. He just said a few hours ago that the US is going to pursue stronger bilateral trade ties with Taiwan. I'm curious what you make of that?
STEVEN CIOBO: Well, look, I mean decisions about what the US does and where they place their priorities and which vehicles they use, in other words whether it's bilateral, plurilateral or multilateral, are decisions for the United States Government. Australia enjoys, of course, a very strong relationship with the United States. We've been allies for many decades and we continue to remain firm and fast friends. In that respect, I'm not going to provide gratuitous commentary on US policy. What I'm going to do is make sure that I represent Australia's national interest. We're very forward leaning when it comes to free and liberalised trade. We recognise that it's underpinned Australia's economic growth and employment prospects improving in this country and we're going to continue to pursue those.
BETTY LIU: But Minister Ciobo, what did you make then, because of the special relationship Australia has with many trade partners including the US, what did you make of the G20 meeting over the weekend and what was said and not said by the US, by Steven Mnuchin?
STEVEN CIOBO: Well, Australia's Treasurer, Scott Morrison, argued strongly in favour of including very positive pro-trade sentiment in the communique that was released. That's a positive move. I think it's very important that the G20 doesn't recoil from its strong pro-trade stance. The simple fact is this, that trade, whether it's bilateral, plurilateral or multilateral has been good for the world and we need that to continue.
BETTY LIU: Right, but I think, Minister, what was most surprising though I think was Steven Mnuchin's stance of not coming out so forthright to protect free trade and that was a source of disappointment coming out of that meeting.
STEVEN CIOBO: Well, again that's the decision for the United States Administration. I mean, the Trump Presidency and his Administration will set policy as they deem appropriate based upon, obviously, what they took to the last US Federal Election. My focus, my concern is about what Australia can do, and as I said, Australia is going to continue to be a very strong advocate for the benefits of increased and improved global trade. I will continue to pursue new opportunities. Right now my key priority is liberalising trade with Indonesia. It's a relationship that should be much stronger than it is between Australia and Indonesia, and so I'm going to continue to open up new opportunities for Australian exporters for better trade and investment ties with countries throughout our region.
HAIDI LUN: Minister how hard is it, though, to do your job in that capacity where there is a lot of confusion about this chorus of different voices, not really speaking in concert from the US Administration about protectionism, about trade tariffs? Is there a concern from Australia's perspective about this sort of whiplash messaging of who exactly is driving policy and what that policy is?
STEVEN CIOBO: Well there's no doubt some uncertainty globally around trade and where it's going. You've seen, for example, some of the uncertainty in relation to the North American Free Trade Agreement. You've seen some uncertainty in respect of the Trans-Pacific Partnership. For what it's worth, from Australia's perspective, we continue to be firmly of the view that the Trans-Pacific Partnership is a good trade deal, a very good regional trading block, consistent with a strong focus on a rules-based order and a high quality, highly ambitious trade agreement. So, you know, we continue to pursue opportunities like that. We'll also continue to pursue the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership, or what's called RCEP, which is ASEAN countries plus six, including India, Australia, China, and others. You know, this is another regional trading block that has a lot of potential for Australia, so it goes to the core of what I'm talking about when I say we'll continue to pursue opening new markets.
BETTY LIU: Minister Ciobo, I recognise what you're saying, which is the US trade policy is their trade policy, and they deal with theirs, but it clearly has a huge influence on what you do and what many trading partners will do. So, is the mixed messaging that Haidi just mentioned though, is that in some ways a benefit for you, because it means that there are no policies yet coming out from the US Administration?
STEVEN CIOBO: Look, I don't want to overstate the impact it has. Of course it has an impact in terms of global trade, and US policy, of course, will help to shape where, globally, different economies go, but by the same token, for me as Trade and Investment Minister, my focus is upon making sure that we continue to open up new opportunities. Now, I'm in discussions right now with the UK about a post-Brexit, Australia-UK free trade agreement. We're nearing the final stages of a scoping study with the European Union for an EU-Australia free trade agreement. As I said, I've got a high priority on discussions with Indonesia, and I was pleased most recently off the back of meetings last week in Chile that we're going to look at a possible Australia-Pacific Alliance, which is, of course, Colombia, Chile, Mexico, and Peru being able to do a trade deal with those countries as well. So all of these things are options on the table that I'll be pursuing.
HAIDI LUN: Minister, you spoke about the TPP. The talks in Chile didn't really yield anything specific. Were you disappointed by that lack of a specific resolution, and to ask you frankly, is it time to admit defeat and move on to better dedicate those resources to working out bilateral, multilateral trade deals of another sort?
STEVEN CIOBO: Actually, quite to the contrary. The very good outcome from the TPP meeting in Chile was a strongly worded statement that made it clear that all options were on the table. So frankly, talk of the TPP's demise is premature. All countries that were seated, that is all 11 countries excluding the United States, were all very willing to keep discussions going about the future of the TPP and what we might be able to achieve. I have seen some commentaries saying, 'Oh, look the TPP's dead. Forget about it'. Well, what this meeting showed was that it's not. So, we're going to continue to explore options. The next round of discussions will take place between officials for follow-up in APEC in Hanoi later in May.
HAIDI LUN: Alright. Minister Ciobo, great to have you on Daybreak Australia as always.