Weekend Sunrise

ANDREW O'KEEFE: This week the Federal Government has focused on migration issues again, with policy announcements that have been declared by many to be populist. Sweeping changes to the 457 visa rules, plus a new citizenship test that is intended to better reflect Australian values, whatever they are, have led to obvious comparisons – even from papers like the Daily Telegraph – between Prime Minister Turnbull and US President Trump.

MONIQUE WRIGHT: So joining us to discuss this are Trade Minister Steven Ciobo and Opposition Trade Minister Jason Clare; morning to you both. Steven, to you first, the Prime Minister criticised exactly these kinds of changes to the visa programme in the past, now he's using them – he says – to boost Australian jobs. Are we just seeing him really come out with these populist policies because he's seeing that Trump was so successful in the US?

STEVEN CIOBO: Not at all. The reforms that were made in the past were ineffectual. These are reforms that we've targeted because we saw for example, when Labor was last in power, a big spike in the number of 457 workers. The principle behind this is quite straightforward. What we want to say is, if there's a job available, it should first go to an Australian worker wherever possible. And only then, if there is a genuine workplace shortage, should it go to a foreign worker.

ANDREW O'KEEFE: Steve, I think most people would agree with that and that's always been the basis for the 457 visa programme, but, you know, many analysts are saying that really there's been very little substantive change to the regime. I mean, we've renamed it a bit, we've carved it off into two pieces, we've eliminated a bunch of jobs that people weren't filling anyway –

MONIQUE WRIGHT: Like goat farming.

ANDREW O'KEEFE: Goat farming and cobbling. So, yes it's a massive policy announcement so it does – you'd be forgiven for thinking it's more about politics then policy.

STEVEN CIOBO: The whole point of this is the change in those occupations that are listed as being eligible. See, this is the point, you were talking about goat herders, I mean clearly we don't need goat herders. And so, what we want to do is show that the list better reflects, and is much more contemporary, with the current labour market needs. So in other words, we don't want people on there who are going to be coming into jobs that one, Australians are available to work in and two, they want to work in. What we want to do is make sure – take for example, tourism and hospitality, that's an area I know pretty well. They have a huge demand for workers in the hospitality sector because they cannot get people. So we want to make sure that they can get people for those jobs, but other jobs that Aussies could do – I mean, we saw for example under Bill Shorten, where people were being brought in on 457 visas to flip burgers in takeaway, convenience stores, McDonalds, and places like that .

JASON CLARE: It's designed to make Malcolm Turnbull look tough, but really, it doesn't make much difference at all. As you said, you know, they're banning people coming in to do jobs like goat herding or deer farming, they may as well ban people coming in to be Jedi's or town criers okay?

ANDREW O'KEEFE: I wouldn't mind a town crier actually.

JASON CLARE: What Malcolm Turnbull and Steve don't tell you, is that while they're talking tough about protecting Australian jobs, they're actually, through the deals they're making with other countries, making it easier for foreign workers to come into the country. You should have to check first if there's an Australian who can do the job –

ANDREW O'KEEFE: But Labor's advocated for much the same thing in the past.

JASON CLARE: What we've said, is that before someone comes in to do a job, you should check if there is an Aussie who can do it first. And through some of the trade deals that this Government has done, they've made it easier for people to come in because they've waived that responsibility for companies to check first if there's an Australian who can do the job. Steve, you're negotiating a number of deals with different countries at the moment. Will you rule out waiving that responsibility on Australian companies to check first if there's an Australian who can do the job before you bring in people from other countries?

STEVEN CIOBO: This is the thing Andrew, you see what Jason doesn't tell you –

JASON CLARE: Will you rule it out?

STEVEN CIOBO: What Jason doesn't say is that when they were in government, they put in place three free trade agreements –

JASON CLARE: You're dodging and avoiding here Steve.

STEVEN CIOBO: No, I'm actually answering – if you give me a chance, I'll answer it.

JASON CLARE: You're dodging and avoiding. Will you rule it out?

STEVEN CIOBO: I'll answer right now. When you were in power, three FTA's you put in place – Chile, Malaysia, and one in ASEAN. Labor never mandated requirements for labour market testing. Never did it.

ANDREW O'KEEFE: So will you now do it?

STEVEN CIOBO: Well we're going to look at, I mean we will make sure that any free trade agreement we go into is entirely consistent with the announcement that we've just made.

JASON CLARE: So he's refused to rule it out, which means Malcolm Turnbull sounds tough, protecting Aussie jobs, and then they're going to do deals with other countries that make it easier for people to come here.

ANDREW O'KEEFE: Watch this space, by the look of it.

MONIQUE WRIGHT: We're out of time –

ANDREW O'KEEFE: By the way my grandmother was a goat herd.

MONIQUE WRIGHT: Really?

ANDREW O'KEEFE: Yeah, she was. She was only nine when she arrived in Australia so she wasn't much use to the employment market here, but she was a goat herd!

MONIQUE WRIGHT: Well now she wouldn't be able to get a job doing that.

ANDREW O'KEEFE: Well unfortunately she's not here anymore so –

MONIQUE WRIGHT: Lucky for her. Thank you Jason Clare, Steven Ciobo, good to see you.