Sky News, AM Agenda
KIERAN GILBERT: A lot of challenges for Simon Birmingham andthe Government. One, the crossbench - we'll get to them in a moment and Labor -but internally there were some questions as to Chris Back, liberal WA Senator,Eric Abetz, Kevin Andrews, they're all yet to be convinced.
STEVEN CIOBO: Well we're going to keep pushing. The Governmenthas got a clear agenda. We want a full transparent and open system. This isabout providing record amounts of funding for Australia's education system.It's truly delivering on the Gonski needs-based model. It's one model acrossAustralia that sees the same rules applied regardless. And we're putting an endto the special deals. Yes, there might be some uncertainty about certainaspects of it. But you know what, Kieran? This is Parliament House that seemsto be, unfortunately, part of the day-to-day occurrences that take place whenyou've got a Senate crossbench that want to have different positions. That'spart of the challenge of being in government -
KIERAN GILBERT: Have you been hearing these concerns? As theMember for Moncrieff in Queensland as opposed to Trade Minister. Have you beenhearing from the Catholic schools saying they've been duded?
STEVEN CIOBO: No, not at all. More than that. I'veactually had phone calls from both the public education sector and fromprincipals in my electorate talking about the fact that they welcome this newmoney. They welcome this new approach, because this approach puts to bed, putsan end to these special deals. It is now one approach that is transparent,that's open, that parents can see whether they're in the public sector or inthe private sector. This is a far superior approach. And that's part of thereason why David Gonski endorsed this approach to school funding.
KIERAN GILBERT: So you think the Catholic system that thereare elements of different views here because you've got Christian Zahra, the chief of the Catholic Education Commissionin town saying that this is going to be an albatross around the Government'sneck at the next election.
STEVEN CIOBO: Look, those certain stakeholders again, aregoing to argue their case and they're going to argue their case strongly.That's to be expected. The fact is that historically we saw special dealsstruck between the Federal Government and certain sectors, and, of course,people want those special deals to continue. We've changed that. We've made no apologiesfor the fact that we've changed that. We're not in the business of doingspecial deals sector by sector. What we're in the business of doing is puttingin place a transparent framework, a framework that says if you're from the same,effectively, socioeconomic status, whether you're in Queensland, New SouthWales or Western Australia or Tasmania, the same funding model applies. So wemake no apologies for the fact that we are about transparency, a genuine needs-basedmodel that sees that same model approach across all of Australia.
KIERAN GILBERT: The Education Union looks like it's – well there'sa bit of a split there. The WA arm of the Education Union reported in today's WestAustralia newspaper suggesting that this is actually a good deal for the publicschools in that state, 6.8 per cent a year increase over the next decade. So they'vesplit from the rest of the Education Union. You'd welcome that?
STEVEN CIOBO: Look, of course. Here's the shock Kieran.The Education Union in this country is torn between doing what they know is right,which is supporting the Coalition's approach. Or doing the bidding of their politicalmasters, the Australian Labor Party. I mean, no surprises that what is one ofthe most leftist unions in the country, I don't think I get many votes fromteachers generally. The Education Union is really split because they know theright thing to do here. And the right thing is to see a common approach acrossAustralia, transparent, based on need. They know that that's our approach.That's why they're split because they want to do the right thing but they'realso, as I said, heavily conflicted by their support for the Labor Party andwanting to do the bidding of the Labor Party. And that's why you see thesekinds of splits.
KIERAN GILBERT: The Greens are also split on this issue. Youshould be able to get the deal done if the spokesperson Sarah Hanson-Young hasher way because she sees the merits of this deal quite clearly. But the Greenslook like they're split as well.
STEVEN CIOBO: We just need to work this through. This iswhat it comes down to. We are going to continue to strongly advocate about whythis is a far better, more transparent, more equitable model that appliesacross Australia than the old approach, which as I said, saw special deals donebetween different sectors. I mean, that's not a long-term solution. That's nota sustainable funding model.
KIERAN GILBERT: Is it sustainable to do deals with theGreens though for the Government, the Coalition - that's not a good look forthe Coalition to be siding with the Greens.
STEVEN CIOBO: We have got to get our legislation through.Obviously we would always rather that the Australian Labor Party servedAustralia's national interest and did the right thing, but unfortunately weoften see the Australian Labor Party for pure ideological or pure politicalreasons will not do the right thing by Australia. So we're forced to deal withwho are rational actors in the Senate. If we can deal with rational actors inthe Senate from time to time on different pieces of legislations, whether it'sOne Nation, whether it's independent Senators, or whether it's Nick Xenophon,or whether it's the Greens, we'll do those arrangements, we'll makeunderstandings in order to get legislation through.
KIERAN GILBERT: You've got that in the Party Room. The otheris the debate about energy. I don't think you were there last week. But thatwas quite a feisty debate at times. As someone that's watched this for a longtime, do you think that you can land this in a way that's going to satisfy the TonyAbbott's of the world and still get an energy policy which might bring downemissions?
STEVEN CIOBO: What it comes down to, Kieran, is this:people that have concerns don't want to see energy prices continue to go up.This is what it distils down to, in its most basic element. That is a concernthat everyone in the Coalition shares. We want to see price decreases preferablyand if not decreases then at least very modest increases in line with inflationor something like that. What we've seen though are very big increases. And partof the reason has been because we've seen an unwinding of what is a commonsense approach to energy policy for quite some time. Take for example, SouthAustralia where we've seen all the trials and tribulations in-
KIERAN GILBERT: But is there a way forward for you, for theGovernment to get this done in terms of well I know there's interventionslooming in the export market for gas. But that's not enough. That's a shortterm mandate.
STEVEN CIOBO: The thing about the Coalition approach isthat we're largely agnostic about what's going to be used to generate power. Sowhether it's renewables, whether it's clean coal, whether it's gas, we knowthat we've got a variety of options available to us. What we want to do is makesure we're putting more supply into the grid. It's got to be reliable, but it'salso got to be stable, Kieran. This is part of the concern I've got aboutLabor's approach, right? So Labor has this ideological position that they wanta 50 per cent renewable energy target. Now we've seen what happens when youhave targets like that without the appropriate modelling and storage in SouthAustralia. South Australia's been a debacle. Federal Labor wants to adopt thatexact same South Australian approach across the country.
KIERAN GILBERT: Your internal critics say that that's what Finkelcomes up with. Close to that - 42 per cent.
STEVEN CIOBO: No it's not because our approach, as I said,is as agnostic as to the technology we use to generate the power. Whether it'srenewables, coal, gas, etc.
KIERAN GILBERT: Thanks for your time trade minister.Appreciate it.