RN Breakfast

PATRICIA KARVELAS: As Britaincontinues to hammer out the details of its exit from the EU, and othercountries adapt to President Trump's decision to nix the Trans-PacificPartnership, Australia's Government is hoping to capitalise on the new tradelandscape.

Steve Ciobo is the Minister for Trade and Investment andhe's flying to Japan this morning hoping to secure more export opportunitiesfor Australian businesses. Welcome to RN Breakfast.

STEVEN CIOBO: Good morning, Patricia.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Australia signed a free trade agreementwith Japan, the Japan-Australia Economic Partnership Agreement, back in 2014.At the time, Labor accused the Government of reaching a deal with Japan for thesake of an announcement saying it fell well short of what Australia should've had.Is this trip to Japan an attempt to get a better deal to fill in some of thosegaps?

STEVEN CIOBO: No, not at all and it's typical of the LaborParty, which didn't start and didn't deliver any FTAs when they were inGovernment. The fact is if you look at the Japan-Australia free tradeagreement, it's doing terrific work for Australia. It's serving our nationalinterest well. We've seen really big increases in a number of key commoditiesthat are being exported. For example, and this is one of the headlinestatements we use: between 2014 and 2016, Australian table grapes haveincreased in exports by some 5000 per cent.

Now, I'm not going to, of course, deny that that was off arelatively low base, but the point is we've created a whole new export marketand when you speak to local federal members like Andrew Broad, he'll tell youabout how exceedingly well his grape growers are doing now because they've gotaccess to a key export market like Japan.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: This week's delegation includes businessleaders from a range of industries, including health and financial servicesand, of course, financial services being a huge opportunity for Australia. Arethere specific opportunities that have been identified there that you plan topursue this week?

STEVEN CIOBO: Well, what this comes down to is a strategythat I've got and the Government's pursuing, which is to boost our servicesexports, Patricia. Services accounts for about 75 per cent of the Australianeconomy. Roughly four out of every five jobs is in services industries and yetit's only 22 per cent of our exports. What I want to make sure we do is be ableto export Australian services to the world. So it's not just about iron ore andcoal, it's not just about agri-products, it's also about great Aussie services.So that's why we've got to focus, for example, on this trip around healthservices and financial services.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Japan is certainly getting a good dealon Australian gas at the moment with Japanese customers paying less for gaspumped in the Bass Strait than people in Victoria. Is there any politicalsolution to what seems to be a failure of the market in this sense?

STEVEN CIOBO: Well, it's not a failure of the market, it'sa failure of government policy, as far as I'm concerned, at a state governmentlevel. These moratoriums that are effect, just sheer madness. They areresulting in Australia losing domestic supply of gas and it's just a crazysituation. We simply cannot tolerate a situation where Australian gas suppliesare dwindling because of prohibitions on extracting that gas, and yet we allowa situation to exist where we are exporting that gas.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Last week, Prime Minister MalcolmTurnbull was in India and he confirmed that sealing an FTA with India wouldtake some time, that it was nowhere near cooked. It was meant to be signed backin 2015, of course. Now, tariffs are a major sticking point, as is labourmobility. Is that something you'd be willing to negotiate on in order to getthe deal over the line, particularly this issue of labour mobility?

STEVEN CIOBO: Well, look, we're having a good look at thesituation with respect to India. Certainly, what India's asking goes wellbeyond anything that Australia has done, in terms of any FTAs that we have putin place, and we're not willing to go to that extent. Certainly, I want to havea look at what it is that India is offering with respect to goods exports.

From my perspective, I want to make sure that Australia'snational interest is well served, which means doing a deal that's good forAustralia and not just doing a deal to get one over the line, if it's notserving our national interest well.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: The US military has confirmed that theNorth Korean missile exploded on launch, but the type of missile is not yetknown. North Korea warned the United States that any provocation would be metwith retaliation. We know that this is the biggest story in the world. Are youworried about the rising tensions on the Korean peninsula?

STEVEN CIOBO: Well, look, this has been a source of someconcern for a number of years now and so, on that basis, we need to, of course,be diligent and we need to make sure that we've got a clear-eyed vision aboutwhat it is that we're trying to achieve.

Now, we cannot allow North Korea to continue to build anuclear arsenal without, in any way, shape or form, there being a watchful eyecast on them and indeed, in my view, they should be stopped. Now, how that'sachieved, the mechanisms that are best used, clearly the United States isleading the case for that and it will require the support of China. China is akey player in all of this, so I think we just need to keep a wary eye ondevelopments on the Korean peninsula.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Does it concern you that this couldbecome a military conflict? Obviously, that would put the region at somesignificant risk.

STEVEN CIOBO: Well, Patricia, you never want militaryconflict, ideally, and that would always be the very last option that anygovernment, that any democracy would ever choose to go down. So am I concernedabout it? Yes. But by the same token you don't avoid military conflict at alltimes and at all costs, especially if it means that you allow rogue regimes tobuild up arsenal, to build up capability that, in fact, actually jeopardisesmillions of lives. We need to be very realistic about how we approach this andthe way in which we do it.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Steve Ciobo is my guest on RN Breakfast.He's the Minister for Trade and Investment.

Just finally, former Prime Minister, Tony Abbott, saysvoters think Bill Shorten will soon be in The Lodge. Is he right? Is that whatvoters are saying?

STEVEN CIOBO: Well, I'm certainly making sure that that'snot the case. When I speak to voters in my electorate, Patricia, they talk tome about how they are very frustrated that the Australian Labor Party doesn'thave a plan. The Australian Labor Party just says no to every reform theGovernment tries to put in place. They are completely pre-occupied with taxingmore and spending more –

PATRICIA KARVELAS: So, my question, sorry. My question wasabout Tony Abbott's assessment. Are you saying Tony Abbott's assessment of howvoters are feeling is wrong?

STEVEN CIOBO: No, I'm telling you the assessment that I getfrom my electorate. When I speak to people here on the Gold Coast, people thatare predominantly in the services industries, by the way, especially in respectof education services and tourism services, that's the expression that they usewith me with respect to the Opposition Leader, which is what you asked meabout.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: I asked you about Tony Abbott, though,saying something which is extraordinary really, as a former Prime Minister,effectively saying the Government is on the path to spectacular defeat. He'sproduced a five point plan, some ideas for how you could turn it around. Willyou implement his ideas? Things like abolishing the Human Rights Commission,embracing Senate reform to end deadlocks. Are they the kind of ideas you shouldbe embracing?

STEVEN CIOBO: Well, of course, I'm a member of a Governmentthat's already reformed the Senate. We put through reforms in the Senate, whichwe took to the last election, and I think we'll see the benefits of thosereforms flow through at the next federal election.

Look, it comes down to this. Ultimately, Australians have achoice between Bill Shorten as Prime Minister and Labor's approach of taxingmore and spending more, or Malcolm Turnbull as Prime Minister with a prudentapproach, one that balances appropriately the –

PATRICIA KARVELAS: But what I asked you, what do you thinkof Tony Abbott's five point plan? Is it a plan that you think should beimplemented?

STEVEN CIOBO: Well, I'm saying a number of those thingshave already been implemented.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: No, the Senate reform he talks aboutwould lead to a referendum. It would change, fundamentally, the way that –

STEVEN CIOBO: But we've already reformed the Senate,Patricia, that's my point.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: But you haven't reformed it the way he'ssuggesting, Steve Ciobo. It's a different suggestion and we shouldn't confuselisteners, because they have very different propositions. I'm asking you do youthink you should embrace the reform that he's suggesting?

STEVEN CIOBO: Look, I mean, ultimately, every backbencherwill raise policy ideas. Those will be discussed in Party Room. They have theopportunity to be considered by the Party as a whole and for the Party to takea decision about which reforms, or, indeed, any initiatives that we will takeforward.

Now, I wouldn't say to any backbencher, "No, that's abad idea." Every backbencher has a right to put in their view. That'sexactly how our system works and I encourage every backbencher to keepcontributing to the arsenal of policy ideas that the Coalition Government has.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: He's a former Prime Minister, he's notjust a backbencher. He gets more attention, as is clearly the case. I'm askingyou questions and part of those not that he's just a backbencher, it's thathe's a former Prime Minister. His interventions, do you find them helpful?

STEVEN CIOBO: I don't get overly concerned about theinterventions of former Prime Ministers or backbenchers or others. From myperspective, I think Australians have a very clear-eyed vision about what itis, that the choices are that the Government's undertaking and the Oppositionis proposing.

Now, they know very well, that as a Coalition Government,what we are putting in place are a number of reforms to our parliamentaryprocess, are a number of reforms to the way in which the Australian budgetoperates. We've reduced the tax burden on small businesses to drive economicgrowth and to –

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Sure, you might have done all thosethings, but Tony Abbott says – and he's been on his bike tour around thecountry, something he does for charity every year, the Pollie Pedal, well known– that he's hearing from the public that they're sick of politicians and sickof your Government.

STEVEN CIOBO: Well, here's a little bit of insight. I'vebeen in politics for more than 15 years, Patricia. I've never, in that 15years, known the Australian public to love politicians, but never in those 15years felt that there's been this overwhelming tide of people going,"Thank God Australia's got politicians."

Look, there is always a view among the Australian public –and you know, an appropriate level of cynicism sometimes, I think, about whatit is that governments are doing of either persuasion. Now, I think it'sstating the obvious to say, "Well, Australians don't likepoliticians." Well, that may be the case. But, ultimately, Australia'sgovernance, our parliamentarians of all political persuasions have served ourcountry relatively well. Each election is an opportunity for Australians tomake a choice between how they want their country to go forward and it comesdown, if you distil it down to its most basic elements, it comes down to achoice between Labor's big taxing, big spending approach, or the Coalition'sapproach of taxing less, reducing overheads and, as a consequence, gettingAustralia into a healthier fiscal position.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Steve Ciobo, good luck on your trip toJapan.

STEVEN CIOBO: Thanks very much, Patricia.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: And that's the Minister for Trade andInvestment, Steve Ciobo, joining us on RN Breakfast this morning.