ABC TV, Lateline
JEREMY FERNANDEZ: Steve Ciobo, welcome to Lateline.
STEVEN CIOBO: Good to be with you.
JEREMY FERNANDEZ: Now you see a lot of opportunity in Britain's separation from the EU. Has the Australian Government established its minimum position or its wishlist from a new bilateral deal with the UK?
STEVEN CIOBO: Well, we want a deal that's going to be as ambitious as possible. I want to make sure that we take advantage of the fact that we have the UK exiting the EU, which – and by take advantage I mean achieve the best possible win-win outcome for the UK and for Australia. We've seen, for example, with the EU that Australia has had a lot of constraint, especially around agricultural exports into the EU, with low levels of quotas. I want to make sure that we can use this Brexit opportunity as an opportunity to boost those and basically to make it as straight-forward as possible when it comes to goods, services and investment.
JEREMY FERNANDEZ: Is there a danger Australia appears too keen and therefore damages relationships with the EU countries, particularly if that Brexit separation gets acrimonious?
STEVEN CIOBO: No, I don't think so. Look, I mean, I'm keen to do a trade deal with everyone I can in terms of doing a good trade deal. So, you know I want a good, high, ambitious trade deal with the EU. I want a good, ambitious trade deal with the UK. Now, the simple fact when it comes to this issue is that discussions with the Europeans are more advanced. They've been going for longer. We're nearing the end of a scoping study with the Europeans, whereas with the UK we've announced the establishment of a Joint Working Group. That Joint Working Group has had its first meeting. I've been having regular meetings with Dr Liam Fox, the UK Trade Minister, as well as with Lord Price, his junior minister. So it's progressing well. We're having constructive dialogue and I'm confident we'll achieve a good outcome.
JEREMY FERNANDEZ: Some observers say the UK will seek to make an example of Australia by reaching a quick and friendly deal. Does that put the benefit on our side?
STEVEN CIOBO: Well, look, you're sort of asking me for commentary around this and I'm not in a position to provide that. What I can say is this. Both the UK and Australia are deeply committed to doing this deal. We've got strong investment ties, we've got strong historical ties, and frankly the arguments for doing a comprehensive, high quality deal are apparent to all involved. Now I want to make sure we do that in as timely a way as possible. We need to recognise that we can't commence formal negotiations around an Australia-UK trade deal until such time as the UK formally exits the EU. That's when the formal negotiations will start. Now we'll obviously want to conclude as swiftly as we possibly can, but also achieve commercially meaningful outcomes.
JEREMY FERNANDEZ: Some analysts are concerned that any short-term volatility from Brexit, coupled with growing debt in China, could be a recipe for another financial crisis. And with fears of a housing bubble here and the potential evaporation for credit, how does that all play out in your mind? Does that concern you? Does it keep you awake at night?
STEVEN CIOBO: Well you've sort of rolled off a litany of potential events that could go wrong and, look, potentially could all those things happen? Yes. We know that we live in uncertain times. We know that there's a lot of volatility around the world and I'm the first to acknowledge that there is a lot of uncertainty. But from my perspective, this just reinforces the need to make sure that Australia continues to diversity as much as we possibly can, and continues to open up our exporters to new market opportunities.
JEREMY FERNANDEZ: I want to take you to another issue. The Government's done quite a dramatic back-flip in the last couple of days on this Australia-China extradition treaty. Should the Government have been more careful in prospectively embarrassing our biggest trading partner by withdrawing that deal?
STEVEN CIOBO: This is a treaty that's been around for quite some time. As you know it was first looked at in 2007. The Chinese have been waiting for the extradition arrangements to go through the Australian Parliament since then. We obviously would like to live up to the commitments that were given a decade or so ago. Ultimately, though, it comes down to this: this could not happen without Opposition support. The way that the Parliament sits, in particular, of course, the structure of the Senate, the way the numbers sit in the Senate, without the Australian Labor Party being willing to do their bit in Australia's national interest, this can't go through. What we need to have happen is both the Labor Party and the Coalition working to fulfil commitments that we've given.
JEREMY FERNANDEZ: You don't have to look as far as the Labor Party. There are members of your own backbench who are unhappy with this deal.
STEVEN CIOBO: Well, look, there'll always be some people across the board who have issues with any particular piece of legislation or any proposed treaty arrangement. The fundamental fact, though, is this. With the numbers supplied from the Opposition, plus the Government, this would have had no trouble going through the Upper House and coming into force.
JEREMY FERNANDEZ: Li Keqiang has just been here in the last few days and you know how much the idea of saving face is important. You don't think this damages our ties by prospectively embarrassing China on this matter?
STEVEN CIOBO: I think that the Chinese are sophisticated. I think that they have a full, comprehensive view about how the Australian Parliament works. I think they also get numbers and they know the way that the Senate works. So I've got no doubt at all that it's a little more sophisticated than that. They understand that without Opposition support it simply isn't possible for the Government to get this extradition treaty in place.
JEREMY FERNANDEZ: The idea hasn't been shelved. It still remains there as a possibility down the track and you've drawn the link that this could materially affect the cases of Australians who are on trial, who are facing charges in China including those Crown employees.
STEVEN CIOBO: Let's be clear. I was responding to a question that I was asked. But this goes back to, as I said, at its core the fact that in 2007 the then Prime Minister John Howard put in place a prisoner transfer agreement and looked to put in place this extradition agreement. Now the Chinese have delivered on their end and now, a decade later, they're still waiting for Australia to deliver on our end. I think the important thing comes down to this, though. If you look at the concerns that people have - and I understand that people raise concerns. I understand, I'm not deaf to concerns that have been raised. But what I highlight is the fact that there are a range of safeguards in the extradition treaty as proposed, including full ministerial discretion, including a range of safeguards that also extend to judicial review of a minister's decision. Now those safeguards, I fundamentally believe and it's the Government's view, overcome any objections that people have put forward.
JEREMY FERNANDEZ: Is the obligation on Australia greater because of the sheer weight of that trading relationship with China?
STEVEN CIOBO: Look these are separate issues. Absolutely separate issues. What I look at as Trade Minister is pursuing our national interest with respect to our trade and investment arrangements with China. That's an entirely separate decision to decisions that the Government might take in relation to, for example, something like an extradition treaty.
JEREMY FERNANDEZ: Steve Ciobo, thanks for joining us.
STEVEN CIOBO: Good to be with you. Thanks.