TV interview, Sky News with Kieran Gilbert

Kieran Gilbert: And let's go live now to the Minister for Trade, Tourism and the Special Minister for State, Don Farrell. Don Farrell, thanks very much for your time. The electoral reform proposal, you've put it to Parliament. The debate in the Senate started at midday. Can I ask you, first of all, you've had some criticism.

Yes, we're going to start now. Are you in a position to talk now, Don Farrell?

Minister for Trade, Don Farrell: Yes. Yeah, I just wasn't clear that the interview was starting.

Kieran Gilbert: Yeah, no, no, we're starting now. Thank you. Yes, we're going to go live to air, and I just wanted to ask you about this debate which has started on electoral reform. Can you tell me, what do you say to the criticism from the Teals, the crossbench and others that have said this is basically a stitch-up between the major parties?

Minister for Trade: Well, I completely reject that suggestion. This is all about ensuring that ordinary Australians can participate in the electoral process and that you don't have to be a mate of a billionaire to participate in that electoral process. We've now been talking about this for more than two and a half years. We've got a proposal, we've circulated it to all of the political parties, we've offered meetings about it. And I'm hopeful that the rest of the Parliament will see the merit in taking big money out of the Australian electoral system. We don't want an American-style electoral system. We want to protect and promote the Australian electoral system. This is all about transparency, it's all about accountability, and it's all about fairness.

Kieran Gilbert: The Independents say it's not fair to them if they're not the incumbents but trying to build a profile. They argue that on occasion, they will have to spend more than the cap in individual seats to help boost a profile against an incumbent Liberal or Labor member, given the bigger brand that the major parties have to work with.

Minister for Trade: I mean, can they be serious? If you can't get your message across with an $800,000 cap, then there's something wrong. What we've done here is set a level playing field for all of the participants. Nobody gets an advantage out of this. The Labor Party doesn't, the Liberal Party doesn't, the Independents don't. It's a level playing field and it's all about putting downward pressure on the cost of elections in this country and ensuring that ordinary Australians have got the opportunity to participate in the electoral system, not just the wealthy.

Kieran Gilbert: Either way, the deal has been done by the major parties, so it'll go through regardless of the crossbench concerns. That's the reality, isn't it?

Minister for Trade: Well, we're still talking with all of the parties. I haven't given up on getting support from other parties. We're continuing to talk with the Coalition, and we've made it clear that we will talk with anybody in this building who is interested in reforming and protecting the Australian electoral system.

Kieran Gilbert: I want to turn to trade now. There's so much happening in your area of responsibility. Whether we throw forward to the impact of the Trump tariffs, really turning on its head in many respects, the rules-based order, the incoming Trump administration. At the same time, China talking up the free trade principles. What do you make of that? Is it a bit ironic given the recent history we've had with China?

Minister for Trade: Well, I'm never surprised about irony in politics, Kieran, but look, when we came to office two and a half years ago, people said, oh, you'll never get that $20 billion worth of trade back that we lost with China. Well, we have got it back, and for many of the products that we've got back into China, we're actually selling more now than we were before the impediments were put in place. And it's important to remember that last year our trade with China was $327 billion. So, China is an important trading partner. We'll work with any country that's interested in free and fair trade. 

We used the WTO system plus negotiations to ensure that we got particularly grain and wine back into China. In a couple of weeks’ time, I'm meeting the head of the WTO for further discussions about what we can do as a middle power to ensure that our voice is heard, that we're getting a message across to every country that we trade with, we are interested in free and fair trade. We're a great trading nation. One in four jobs in Australia depends on trade. If you're an internationally focused business, then your profits are higher and your wages of your staff is also high.

Kieran Gilbert: Well, that's not the view of many in America, including those coming into the Trump administration. We, unless it's happened recently, we don't know who the trade representative is yet in Donald Trump's team, there's talk about Robert Lighthizer, a real traditional protectionist. Do you think you'll be able to win those exemptions that Australia got last time? I know you, you put a very high premium on those personal relations you're able to achieve with counterparts like the Chinese counterpart and others. It might take a fair bit of charm to do that with the incoming American trade representative.

Minister for Trade: Well, we'll do our best to ensure that we put our best foot forward. We believe we have a very strong argument to the Americans as to why they should not go down the track of tariffs. We have a trade deficit with the United States. It doesn't make any sense when we buy more American products than the Americans buy from us, for the Americans to put a tariff on our products. I've reached out to Mr. Lighthizer. As you say, we don't know yet whether he will be the United States Trade Representative, but whoever is that person, I'll ensure that we make early contact with them…

Kieran Gilbert: And have you spoken to him yet?

Minister for Trade: And we strongly express our view that we are not in favour of tariffs, that we believe peace and prosperity in the Indo-Pacific region is best served by keeping free and fair trade without tariffs.

Kieran Gilbert: When you said you've reached out to Mr. Lighthizer, have you spoken to him yet? Or is that you've just said you'd like to catch up?

Minister for Trade: I haven't spoken to him yet, but I've indicated that. I haven't spoken to him yet, Kieran, but I have indicated that if he is the relevant person, that I would be very keen for an early conversation so that we can get the relationship off on the right foot and that we can express directly to the Americans the position that we take. We are not in favour of increased tariffs. We have a free trade agreement with the United States. It works well and we want to continue with free trade, not just with America, but with all of our trading partners.

Kieran Gilbert: Indeed. And just finally, Chris Uhlmann has a documentary tonight on Sky News talking about the cost of the transition to renewables. AEMO recently, and in the documentary, says it can't guarantee renewables and the plan will reduce household power bills. Are Australians being misled by the promise that this is all about delivering cheaper energy, that renewables will deliver cheaper energy?

Minister for Trade: Kieran, the whole world is moving towards renewable, renewable energy. We want to be a renewable superpower and once again, we're the lucky country. We have all of the minerals, the critical minerals, the rare earths that go into the batteries of the future that are going to lead us down the path of net zero. We have to participate in that process. It's a matter of urgency that we need to decarbonise our economy and the Australian government continues to want to do that, and will continue working with the rest of the world along with that decarbonisation process.

Kieran Gilbert: Will it blow up power bills though?

Minister for Trade: Well, I think the significant thing that we have to do here, Kieran, we have to move down the track of net zero. We have no choice about that, and that's the ambition of the Australian government. I believe it has the support of the Australian people and that's the direction that this government is heading.

Kieran Gilbert: Trade Minister Don Farrell. Thank you for your time on a range of issues. We'll talk to you soon.

Minister for Trade: Thanks, Kieran.