TV interview, ABC Afternoon Briefing with Greg Jennett

Greg Jennett, host: We'll leave it there and introduce now a man who's been in the thick of things in the Parliament all day, maybe all week we could say. I'm talking about the Special Minister of State, Don Farrell. Welcome back to the program, Don. And I think you were in the chamber as Simon Birmingham got to his feet before coming to join us. He is a fellow South Australian. What stands out to you as his major contribution?

Minister for Trade, Don Farrell: Oh look I think, Greg, he's been a very significant figure in the South Australian branch of the Liberal Party. I took the opportunity to reach across the table and shake his hand and wish him luck. We do share a few things in common, particularly our support of the Adelaide Crows. And on many occasions, well I should say on some occasions, when the Crows finally made it to the finals, we would sit in my office and watch those games. But look, I wish him all the best. He's worked very hard for the Liberal Party and you have to respect that. And I hope his post-parliamentary career is as successful as his current career.

Greg Jennett: And I'm sure Penny Wong will make gracious remarks because they have an interesting but professional relationship. I think there's a degree of respect across the table down there in your chamber in the Senate, Don. Let's move on to electoral law because you've been working for many months, in fact we're probably over a year now, trying to negotiate your way towards a consensus on spending and donation caps. Now you're going to have to stick at it for at least another three months. The Coalition has baulked at the final. What's the sticking point?

Minister for Trade: Oh look, there's a couple of outstanding issues there, Greg, that we weren't able to sort out at the last moment. I'm disappointed in that, but I haven't given up. I think there is a sense in the Senate at least that there is an opportunity to take big money out of Australian politics. So, over the break I'm going to be working with the Coalition, with the Greens, with the independents – to see whether or not there is a way through this and try and come back in February with a package that will pass the Parliament.

Greg Jennett: Okay, you say a couple of sticking points. I think I have a broad understanding of at least one of them and that pertains to donation caps. So, you're proposing $20,000. I believe the Liberals want something significantly higher but still in the double digits of thousands of dollars. Are you prepared to raise that?

Minister for Trade: Look, you know politics is the art of the possible, Greg. So, it just wasn't possible this week to make the progress that I would have liked. And given how many other bills are still before the Senate, there's plenty of other things we can deal with. But I continue to remain optimistic that there is a path through this. That’s what the Australian people want. They don’t want to see the Americanisation of the Australian electoral system. And I’m going to work as hard as I can over the Christmas break. I have met a lot of interesting people this week that I’ve never met before. Clive Palmer, for one. I had a very long conversation with him about electoral reform.

Greg Jennett: Describe that to me. I mean, was that a hostile encounter. He’s talking about going to the High Court.

Minister for Trade: Look, he didn't talk to me about that, I have to say, which I thought was interesting. But, no, it was a quite friendly discussion where he obviously put his point of view, I put mine – 

Greg Jennett: I mean, how did you put that? Thanks, Clive, but we don't want you playing in politics in the way that you have been, is that the gist of it?

Minister for Trade: No, well I didn't quite use those words, Greg. I explained to him why I thought we have to take big money out of Australian politics. He explained to me his view, which is that there should be no cap on donations, and I suppose at the end of the day we agreed to disagree. I caught up with Simon Holmes à Court, he was in Sri Lanka on his way back from the United Kingdom. Again, we had a discussion and again, I guess we agreed to disagree.

Greg Jennett: All right, for completeness, since I interrogated you on the Clive Palmer conversation – the Simon Holmes à Court one, how did that proceed?

Minister for Trade: Look, again, I think it's fair to say we agreed to disagree. You know, my view is in order to remove this Americanisation of the Australian political system, we need to take the big money out of Australian politics. They are in the group which says, look you shouldn't limit the spending. We just have a different point of view.

Greg Jennett: Right, but did that feed into your thinking about yanking the bill this week?

Minister for Trade: No, no, I was still working across the Parliament. I met nearly all of the crossbenchers during the course of this week, trying to get enough support to get the legislation through. It just wasn't possible.

Greg Jennett: What about the Coalition, though? Because they had taken a party room decision two Tuesdays ago to support your bill in the House. And yes, it is true, they left themselves room to manoeuvre in the Senate. Had you at any point come to believe that they were in the cart, to use that expression?

Minister for Trade: No, no, no, they never shook hands on a deal. So, it's not as if they've broken a deal. We never had an arrangement. I mean, people kept saying, oh, they've done a deal, they've done a deal, they've done a deal. Well in fact we hadn't done a deal, Greg. We were working towards an agreement. As I've said to you on many occasions, I think the best reforms to the Australian electoral system are the ones with the broadest level of support and I haven't given up on it, and more work has to be done.

Greg Jennett: The time is really limited, isn't it? If you've got to get it done in what, on paper, is a Senate fortnight in February and almost nothing left after that.

Minister for Trade: Oh well, you'll see 20 or so bills pass the Senate in a couple of hours this evening. 

Greg Jennett: True.

Minister for Trade: So, if there's a will, there's a way to do that. And look, there's been widespread discussion. This is not something new that I've thrown up at the last moment. There's been debate about this reform for the last two years. So, I think you know, people have got a good understanding of what it is the government is trying to do. I think they've got a good understanding of, you know, of what has to be done. My job is to convince enough senators to get on board for this reform.

Greg Jennett: Too right it is, and were there any anomalies that were discovered in the final phases of this negotiation? It's been mentioned to me that there might have been around peak industry lobby groups and affiliation fees that they received. Do you acknowledge that there were some things to be tidied up?

Minister for Trade: Look, look, I don't want to go into the specifics. But there was a range of issues that did pop up at the last moment, which were difficult issues to address in a short space of time. Again, I'm going to be trying to work through all of them to get a result.

Greg Jennett: All right, and just a quick one on all that has played out in the Senate today. It's not exactly the best form of governance, is it, to be ramming through 27 bills. ‘One of the largest ever guillotine items in Senate history’, I think it's being said today. Are you proud of that?

Minister for Trade: Look, I think it's pretty common, Greg, whether the figure's 20 or some other figure, for there to be a little bit of a rush at the, at the end of the year as we get towards Christmas. I don't think it's that much of a surprise that so many bills are coming forward. I mean, think about what some of them are. It's the government's Future Made in Australia. I mean, that's a really, really important piece of legislation. If we can get that through this afternoon, then we can start working on the jobs and the investment that's going to come out of that piece of legislation. So, I think these are all good pieces of legislation, and I'm looking forward to all of them passing. 

Greg Jennett: Going to get to bed tonight?

Minister for Trade: Well, that's in the hands of my Senate colleagues. I hope so, I do feel like I need a little bit of a rest after a pretty busy year.

Greg Jennett: I can well understand that, Don Farrell. And it just may be that this is our last conversation on Afternoon Briefing for the year. So, we'll say farewell and thank you for your cooperation and appearance throughout 2024.

Minister for Trade: Well, can I thank you for the opportunity of being on your show so often, and wish you all the best in your new role in ACT ABC.

Greg Jennett: Thanks, that's very kind, Don Farrell. We'll stay in touch. Thanks.

Minister for Trade: Thanks, Greg.