Sally Sara, ABC Radio National

Sally Sara: Well, Australian industry is on tenterhooks, awaiting indications on whether there'll be an Australian exemption from US tariffs on steel and aluminium. The Trade Minister, Don Farrell, has his bags all but packed, ready to fly to the US to meet his US counterpart, Howard Lutnick, as soon as Mr Lutnick is confirmed in the role. But before that, Mr Farrell is at the centre of electoral forms. He has negotiated with the Coalition in what integrity experts have called an affront to our democracy.

Don Farrell is with me in the studio. Don Farrell, welcome to Radio National Breakfast.

Minister for Trade: Nice to be with you, Sally.

Sara: You've got quite a bit on in your portfolios at the moment. Let's start with the question of tariffs. Has Australia been killing the American aluminium market as Donald Trump's senior trade adviser, Peter Navarro has accused Australia of doing?

Minister for Trade: I don't believe we have, Sally. We make a terrific product here in aluminium. It's a high-quality product. Australian companies do really well in the export market, and we sell our product to willing purchasers in the United States. I think we the reason we're making those sales, of course, is the high quality and the high value of the product we sell. And I don't believe we have done at any stage anything that has not been agreed to by the American Government.

Sara: Has DFAT been reporting the sales of Australian steel and aluminium to the US Commerce Department?

Minister for Trade: Well, I can't say I know exactly how that information is collected by the Americans. I'm sure they have accurate figures on what we export into the United States. I think it's important to remember, Sally, that in the relationship between Australia and the United States, it's overwhelmingly in the United States' favour. We have trade worth about $100 billion. $30 billion of that is what we sell for the United States, but 70 billion is what the Americans sell to us.

Sara: Minister, I'll bring you back to the question, though. Have we been – has Australia been reporting the volumes of steel and aluminium exports to the US Commerce Department?

Minister for Trade: I'm sure that we comply with all of the obligations that America imposes on those companies that are supplying into the United States. And it wouldn't matter whether it was beef or lamb or grain or steel or aluminium, I would be absolutely certain Australian companies comply with all of their obligations in terms of reporting into the United States. But just getting back to my other point --

Sara: But has DFAT been passing on those figures to the US Department of Commerce?

Minister for Trade: I don't know who is responsible for reporting to the United States, but whoever it would be, would be complying with all of the obligations.

Sara: So, you you're not sure?

Minister for Trade: Well, I don't know exactly – I don't get down into those precise details, but I'm certain that we comply with all of our obligations to report to the United States Government in terms of whatever exports that we might be passing on into the United States.

Sara: There's a bit of a tangle of words here on the previous exemption what's your understanding? Did the Coalition Government give a verbal agreement about limiting Australian aluminium being exported into the United States, which it then didn't abide by?

Minister for Trade: You'd have to ask Mr. Morrison or --

Sara: What's your understanding?

Minister for Trade: Well, look, they are matters for Mr Morrison or Mr Birmingham, who was the Trade Minister at the time. What I'm aware of is what we've been doing over the last three years, and I think we have been complying with all of the arrangements that were in place and the appropriate arrangements that were in place to ensure that we continued to supply high-quality Australian-made aluminium into the American market.

Sara: Has DFAT been in contact with Australian aluminium exporters urging them to contain the amount of aluminium - Australian aluminium – that's going into the US, has that occurred?

Minister for Trade: I would say DFAT is very commonly in contact with all of the Australian companies that sell product into the American market. Where there are arrangements in place we would ensure that the companies that export to the United States are fully aware of their obligations.

Sara: How can you comply with a deal when you're not sure what that deal was?

Minister for Trade: Well, I'm not sure quite what you're referring to --

Sara: In terms of containing what the previous promise was.

Minister for Trade: I would expect, and I understand that Australian companies that export to the United States are exporting on the basis of what they understand to be the rules.

Sara: What do you understand the rules to be?

Minister for Trade: Well, we were given an exemption by the former, well, President Trump when he was formally president for the first time, and we have supplied aluminium in accordance with that arrangement. I might say the total amount of aluminium that we supply to the United States is a relatively small amount in the scheme of things and -

Sara: What's your understanding of the deal when it comes to the amount that we are allowed to send?

Minister for Trade: Well, I understand that there's a ceiling to how much we export to the United States. Of course, in the middle of all of this you had the Russia-Ukraine war. And I understand that because of difficulties in arrangements between getting Russian aluminium into the United States, we increased the amount of aluminium that we supplied into the American market. But all of that was done with the full knowledge of the American Government. We haven't done, at any stage, anything that the American Government has not been comfortable with.

Sara: Minister, I need to ask you about electoral reforms. After the deal was announced yesterday, the Centre for Public Integrity issued a statement saying they've been advocating for political donations reform and transparency for a long time. But in terms of this agreement, they've described it as an affront to our democratic process and the legislation went through without proper process and scrutiny. What's your response to those comments?

Minister for Trade: Well, Sally, I say this. From the time that I became the Special Minister of State three years ago, we have worked on reforming the Australian electoral system. We want to make it easier for ordinary Australians to participate in the electoral process. And you shouldn't have to be beholden to billionaires in order to successfully run for politics in Australia. I want to see the ideas of Australia being the issue that determines whether or not they are or are not elected, not their wealth. And what we did last night was, as you say, dramatically increase the transparency of the Australian political system. For the first time, when you walk into the ballot place in the election after next, so, it doesn't apply to this election because we're so close to the election, for the first time, you'll know exactly who else is donating to the candidate that you're contemplating supporting. These are significant reforms. We're capping the amount of money that you can spend on elections. Instead of the cost of elections blowing out, we are capping those costs.

Sara: Do you understand the criticism of the independents? Because they will be capped with this per candidate cap. But if a candidate is a member of a major party, they'll have the money under that per candidate cap and then another pot of money that is capped with the party. In other words, they have access to two pots of money.

Minister for Trade: Can I say that they are completely wrong about that assessment. At the moment, there is no cap at all on how much candidates or parties can spend. The major parties, the Labor Party, the Liberal Party, have voluntarily capped the amount of money that they can spend on an election. So, that, in fact, it's the opposite of the criticism that is being made about this legislation. We're actually reducing the amount of money that the major political parties can spend on an election and that is to the benefit of all candidates. And can I say this, Sally? We've kept the amount of money you can spend on a single electorate at $800,000. If you can't get your message out to the Australian people with a spend of $800,000, then there's something wrong with your campaigning.

Sara: Minister, we'll need to leave it there. You've got a lot on your plate at the moment. Thank you so much.

Minister for Trade: Thanks, Sally.